Ok, I have to share this, because it is just so funny. This post is long, I must warn you in advance. In one of the groups that I am a member of on Yahoo, this original message was posted:

“[Christian Homosexual] The two words are oxymorons. There is no way one can be a homosexualand a Christian at the same time. you must give up on to be theother. it would be for your own good to giveup your inordinatesexual desires and come to the Lord in humble obedience. Go and sinno more. You cannot have two masters. Either God is your master oryour perverted lust after the flesh is your master. Stop sinning andrepent.”

The person who posted this signed his name “Bishop David.” I responded:

“Hmmm…so are you saying that when a person become a Christian, they will not sin anymore?”

He responds by quoting this long passage of Scripture:

“Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that yeshould obey it in the lusts thereof.13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousnessunto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alivefrom the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness untoGod.14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not underthe law, but under grace.15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, butunder grace? God forbid.16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, orof obedience unto righteousness?17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye haveobeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants ofrighteousness.19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of yourflesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleannessand to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your membersservants to righteousness unto holiness.20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free fromrighteousness.21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are nowashamed? for the end of those things is death.end22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, yehave your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.end23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternallife through Jesus Christ our Lord.King James Bible AV.”

I responded:

“Ok, I can quote scripture all day to you too, but you did not answer my question. Are you saying that when a person becomes a Christian, they will no longer sin?”

He responds:

“So, instead of quoting scripture all day live according to scriptureall you life. As it is written – “be a doer of the word, not ahearer only.”The true question on the subject matter is: Who is a true Christian?You will know them by their fruits. If they continue in willful sinthey never were truly Christian.Let the Bible speak.James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and areconvinced of the law as transgressors.1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for hisseed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.If you are a Christian you are born of God and no longer sin.”

He actually did answer my question so I must have missed his last line. I tend to tune out guys when they can’t reason with me and only quote Scripture as proof texts. So I answered:

“Still waiting on you to answer my question…it’s a simple yes or no.Are you saying that when a person becomes a Christian,they will no longer sin?Yes or no?”

He responds:

“Are you functionally illiterate? 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of Goddoth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannotsin, because he is born of God”

I respond:

“Wow, it is such an honor to be in the presence (or at least incommunication) with a saint. Let’s look at the whole passage of 1 John in question using the New International Version. I realize that I may be taking a leap here since you are using the King James Version of the Bible and you might be one of those KJV only freaks, but go with me on this anyway. Let’s look at the passage:1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should becalled children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world doesnot know us is that it did not know him. 2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[1] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.Now, when you read this passage in context, it does not seem to me that a Christian would remain perfect after he becomes a Christian. If we used this logic, Peter would not be a Christian, Paul would not be a Christian, and neither would many Old Testament saints such as David, Solomon, and Abraham. All of these men claimed to be of God and still sinned. To believe that a Christian will never sin again is completely unbiblical and unorthodox. The issue here, and the original Greek language supports this, is that a Christian will not participate in habitual sin. I suggest that you type in Google the words, “the nature of sin” and do a small, topical study on harmartiology. To help you along, I am copying and pasting a sermon by my favorite pastor and theologian, John Piper…”

I will not post the article for you because it would already lengthen this already long post. He responded by posting two pro-KJV-only essays so I responded with a question:

“So David, do you believe that the King James Version is the only acceptable version of the Bible?”

I then added three essays that I had dug off the web and he responds:

“You obviously did not read the expose’ on the NIV. I feel so sorryfor you that you think that the NIV is of God. LOL. It is of satanand those that support it are satan’s advocates. Period.”

He adds in another post:

“The NIV is almost identical to the Jehovah’s witness bible. We all know that the JWs are heretics and a cult.”

Realizing that this conversation was going downhill relatively fast, I backtracked and posted this:

I must ask, what are you Bishop of? Are you a pastor? It may help me toknow what background you have. Just so you know mine, I was raised aSouthern Baptist who became a Christian just over ten years ago. InDecember, I will graduate with my Bachelor of Arts Degree in ChristianThought from William Tyndale College in Farmington Hills, Michigan. I only tell you that because I want you to know that I am spiritually qualfied as well as academically qualified to participate in this spirited debate.I have read many “exposes” on the NIV…and I do not buy it. The sameissues that are with the NIV are also with the KJV. David, the KJV is not the Scripture in and of itself. It is a translation of the Scripture. It is no more inspired than any other translation is. If you are looking for purity, you are much better off sticking with the original language rather than an antiquated version of the Bible that was not even authorized by a Christian. I will admit that the NIV has its issues. I’ve never seen a version of the Bible that I completely agreed with every translation of. But I do believe that the NIV is one of the best and it is my choice for my own Bible-reading. Next, I like the New American Standard Version and after that, the Revised Standard Version. I would place the KJV about fourth on the list. It is a good translation, but we must be careful not to elevate the interpretation of Scripture over Scripture itself.I sent to this group a list of questions that I found on another site and you haven’t even dealt with one of them. I could send more, but if you want to continue this debate, you need to deal with the issues at hand. Simply calling the NIV “of satan” and committing the logical fallacy of ad hominem by calling its supporters “satan’s advocates” is not doing your cause much good. In that spirit, I want to apologize publicly for calling you a “KJV freak.” It was uncalled for and I humbly ask for your forgiveness. I realize that there are many incredible Christians who are deeply committed to the Scriptures and to maintain the purity of Scripture, they stick to their guns on this issue. I just happen to disagree, strongly nonetheless.”

And boy did he respond:

“Little lost David McDowell,It truly sounds like you are brainwashed by your studies. The KingJames Bible (AV)is the only word for word translation of God’s holyword. You love the modern perversions of satan in the NIV, NASV, RSV(Catholic) ect. I am praying for you. No other translation is asaccurate as the King James. To say God’s word in the KING JAMES isfourth in accuracy is to lie against God Himself.Interpretations? Again I find you humerous. God’s true chosen peopledo not interpret scripture. God is the interpretor. Learn how to bea holy person, not a debater, nor interpretor. Do not elevateyourself to a position you are not ready for. You are still on milkand not yet ready for the meat. A novice, as yourself, is filledwith nonsense and should not think himself to be able to teach, norto be wiser than he is.Spirited debate? LOL. Debate is sin.Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into thecondemnation of the devil.1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, hedesireth a good work.2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt toteach;3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; butpatient, not a brawler, not covetous;4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children insubjection with all gravity;5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall hetake care of the church of God?)6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into thecondemnation of the devil.7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without;lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.without Mark 4:11, 1st Cor 5:12, Col 4:58 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not givento much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the officeof a deacon, being found blameless.11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober,faithful in all things.12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling theirchildren and their own houses well.13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase tothemselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which isin Christ Jesus.”

Here is my response:

“This will most likely be my last word on this subject because you haverefused to engage me on any of the points that I have sent. You called me “Little lost David McDowell.” Are you implying that since I am not KJV-Only that I am not a Christian? I seriously would like an answer to that question. If you cannot tell me that you believe that I am not a believer and hell-bound, then the rest of the conversation would be pointless.You said, “The King James Bible (AV)is the only word for word translation of God’s holy word.” The truth is that the King James Bible is a good translation, but not as close to the original Greek as the New American Standard Version. It is not a “word for word translation.” (In reality,since the Koine Greek language put very little emphasis on word order, a “word for word” translation would not make sense to most people.)You said, “To say God’s word in the KING JAMES is fourth in accuracy is to lie against God Himself.” Does God really speak in King James English? I would also like to know what you do with non-English speaking Christians. Do they need to learn English in order to read God’s Word?You said, “God’s true chosen people do not interpret scripture. God is the interpretor [sic]. Ok, the correct spelling is “interpreter.” The Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek and was translated into English by men like Wycliffe and Tyndale. Are you saying that these men were not “God’s chosen people”?You said, “Spirited debate? LOL. Debate is sin.” So when Job debated his friends for almost the entire book, that was sin? When Stephen, Peter, and Paul debated the Sanhedrin and other first-century people in order to turn them to Christ, they were sinning? Are we sinning by spreading the gospel if that includes debating other people?I know that you may believe that debate is wrong, but could you at least answer my legitimate questions in this email?”

And again, boy did he respond! Please note that the capitalizations are his:

“Lord Jesus,I THANK YOU FOR SMALL FAVORS THAT THIS INFIDEL McDowell will nolonger try to persuade me that satan’s NIV, Nasv, RSV and theJehovah’s witness, ect. bibles are of you. They are all the same andanti-Christian, as you well know. Why do these infidels always thinkthat satan’s word is better than your holy word in the King JamesBible?Lord, have mercy on McDowell’s soul for he knows not what he doesand is deceived in his studies under the filthy that have taken overthe bible colleges..”

I’m not even sure I want to continue conversation with this guy at this point, but I’m probably going to try at least one more email with a simple list of questions regarding what he believes and leave out my attempts to persuade him. I’ll let you know. Sorry for such a long post, but this was just too good not to share!

Dave M.

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One response to “

  1. I hope this”bishop” isn’t trusting in his supposed righteousness to get him into heaven. Self righteousness is either claiming you are righteous, or placing trust in other’s declaration of your righteousness. True righteousness, however is that of Christ, which given through Christ and recognized by the Father, and what He says is righteous is truly so. Keep laying the truth out there for guys like this to hear, and make a decision on. Some plant, some water, but God gives the increase!

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